Education Department Won't Take 21 Passenger MFAVs off the Road Despite Liability Issues

One of the issues that has us extremely concerned about the safety of children is the fact that, despite warnings from experts across Canada, the New Brunswick Department of Education refuses to take the 21 passenger Multi Function Activity Vehicles off the road until scientific studies prove that it is properly outfitted with winter tires.

We find it unbelievable that everyone - all the way from the top of the heap including the Premier, Shawn Graham (photo at right), the Minister of Education Roland Hache, the Minister of Transportation Denis Landry, the Minister of Public Safety John Foran, and the District 15 Superintendent John McLaughlin all the the way down to the Principal of Bathurst High School Colleen Ramsay, and the teachers and volunteers who drive these vehicles are willing to take such risks when they know full well that the safety of these vehicles with mixed tires is still undetermined.


Then again, we shouldn't be surprised. Look what they did on January 12, 2008 and how every single person called to defend the government's position at the Coroners Inquest in May covered their own - and their employers' - butts with the oft-repeated line "It's not my job" or "I didn't know" or "It's not my responsibility."



Then there is the BS (BureaucrateSe) we have to contend with every time we deal with the government. Here's a good example of what happened when we asked a simple question of John McLaughlin, Superintendent of District 15 (seen in photograph above helping Bathurst High School Principal Colleen Ramsay into a vehicle after her testimony at the Coroners Inquest in May). You will note, we never did get an answer. We've also asked the same question of Valerie Kilfoil, Director of Communications for the Department of Education, the Minister of Education, Roland Hache and the Minister of Transportation, Denis Landry. None of them can say YES or NO to a simple question: Are these MFAVs still on the road or not? Instead, we get these long winded replies that never actually answer the question. They have obviously been told what to say because they're all saying the same thing while not answering the question.

____ First Email Inquiry ____

From: Isabelle & Allan
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 2:29 PM
To: McLaughlin, John (ED15)
Cc: marcella kelly; ana acevedo
Subject: 21 passenger MFAV


Hi John

I heard a rumor that the 21 passenger MFAV at the Bathurst High School is off the road until the tire issue is resolved. Is it just BHS or all the districts?

Isabelle


___ First Response from John McLaughlin ___

From: McLaughlin, John (ED15)
To: Isabelle & Allan
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: 21 passenger MFAV


Good afternoon Isabelle,

There has not been any district directive to schools other than that they must comply with Department of Education Policies 512 and 513 and District Education Council Policies E-8 and E-8a. Bathurst High School has made an internal decision that their current extracurricular transportation needs are being met by using their larger multifunctional activity vehicle as well as other vehicles that also meet the policy standards.

All of our schools are in compliance with the policies.

I trust this answers your questions.

Regards,

John

___ Second Email From Isabelle Hains ____

From: Isabelle & Allan
To: McLaughlin, John (ED15)
Sent: Tue Dec 01 15:30:05 2009
Subject: Re: 21 passenger MFAV


John
You didnt answer my question. Is the 21 passenger MFAV at Bathurst High School off the road.

Isabelle

____ Second Response from John McLaughlin ___

Hello Isabelle,

In response to your question, the vehicle is available for use by the school as needed.

John
--------------------------
John M

Bathurst Mothers Will Pay for Own Test Vehicle Rental After Province Says No to Scientific Testing

Three Bathurst mothers who lost their sons in a tragic passenger van collision nearly two years ago have been advised by Denis Landry, New Brunswick’s Minister of Transportation, that his Department has no intention of testing the tires on the Department of Education’s new fleet of 21 passenger Multi Function Activity Vehicles (MFAVs).

As a result, the mothers say they will rent a 21 passenger vehicle and pay for it themselves in order to get the scientific testing done quickly in Michigan.

Denis Landry told the mothers Tuesday that the NB Department of Transportation “will not be undertaking its own study of tires” on 21 passenger MFAVs. Rather, he said “officials and technical experts along with Transport Canada are in discussions to resolve this issue.” (see Minister’s correspondence at http://www.vanangels.ca )

“The time has long since passed for ‘discussions’,” says Marcella Kelly, who lost her son Nikki in the crash. “It’s been two years since our sons were killed in a tragedy that was entirely avoidable. It’s been seven months since the Coroners Inquest recommended winter tires be used on all vehicles used to transport children. It’s been two months since we discovered the Bathurst High School MFAV is using mixed tires and now, we arrange for an offer for free testing at one of the world’s top research and development facilities and this is the answer we get from our government.”

Isabelle Hains, Marcella Kelly and Ana Acevedo have called upon the provincial government to put winter tires on the province’s fleet of 21 passenger MFAVs that replaced the now banned 15 passenger vans. The mothers say the NB Department of Education’s use of mixed tires on the vehicle is in violation of its own policies, is unsafe and contrary to the opinion of Canada’s leading tire experts, including Nigel Mortimer of Transport Canada and John Mahler, a veteran automotive journalist with the Toronto Star’s Wheels.ca.

With Mr. Mahler’s help, the mothers arranged for Michigan based Continental Tire’s Research and Development Division to conduct free testing on a 21 passenger MFAV similar to the one used by Bathurst High School to transport children to sporting events. However, Continental does not have a test vehicle so in early December, the mothers asked the Department of Education, which has a new fleet of 21 passenger MFAVs, for help.

They were told by Valerie Kilfoil, Education Department’s Communicatons Director, that they’d have to wait until January for the request to make its way through the “process”.

“We have a very narrow window of opportunity for free testing of the tires on this vehicle,” says Marcella Kelly. “Now that we know the Department of Transportation intends to do absolutely nothing in regards to testing, we can’t wait any longer to get the same answer from the Minister of Education, Roland Hache.”

Toronto based tire expert John Mahler said: “I find the refusal to allow safety testing of the 21 seat MFAV mini buses a sad comment on the New Brunswick government's bureaucracy. I can well understand a government's reluctance to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars required for testing of this kind, but when the testing is offered free of charge to the people of New Brunswick, whose children ride these buses, it seems that this is just bureaucratic institutional stubbornness.” (For additional comments from Mr. Mahler go to http://blog.vanangels.ca/2009/12/john-mahler-veteran-automotive.html )

Isabelle Hains lost her son Daniel in the 2008 collision. She says the Ministers of Transportation and Education both know the risks they are taking by allowing children to be driven in mini-buses with mixed tires. Hains says Denis Landry ”has not even asked Transport Canada to undertake a study of tires” and accuses both Ministers of Education and Transportation of “fiddling while Rome burns”.

“These Ministers don’t care about the safety of children,” says Hains, “Because if they did, the Department of Education would haul those 21 passenger MFAVs off the road and the Department of Transportation would make these tests a priority, especially now, with the second anniversary of our son’s deaths around the corner and the full brunt of winter weather descending upon us.”

The mothers say it is to the New Brunswick government’s “eternal shame” that neither the Department of Transportation or Education would jump at the offer of free testing by Continental, which is one of the world’s leading tire manufacturers.

“If we have to pay for a rental vehicle ourselves, then we will.” Kelly says, adding that the Minister of Education has broken a promise he made in July to the parents of the Boys in Red to make the safety of children the top priority.

“We know better than anyone what happens when you leave the safety of your children in the hands of government,” says Kelly. “And we aren’t going to stand around and wait for another tragedy to occur while they sit around and ‘discuss’.”

John Mahler, Veteran Automotive Journalist Comments on NB Dept. of Transportation Refusal to Test Tires

I find the refusal of the New Brunswick Minister of Transportation, Denis Landry, to allow safety testing of the 21 seat MFAV mini buses a sad comment on his government's bureaucracy. I can well understand a government's reluctance to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars required for testing of this kind, but when the testing is offered free of charge to the people of New Brunswick, whose children ride these buses, it seems that this is just bureaucratic institutional stubbornness.

The Government of New Brunswick has announced that they will not be doing their own testing of winter tires on MFAV mini buses as requested by the mothers of the children who lost their lives in a tragic crash. When did government bureaucracy in New Brunswick change from working for and with the citizens to protecting its own interests?

The Minister had before him a win-win situation and he turned it into a loss.

The win-win situation was a proposal to the New Brunswick government through Denis Landry, that he make available a MFAV minibus for free winter tire testing - just the bus. Request denied. So now, incredibly really, The Continental Tire company has come forward to offer both engineers and the use of their winter tire testing facility in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan completely free of charge to the people of New Brunswick. Continental Tire has nothing to gain from this generous offer. They are already a time-honoured, respected tire company and one of my regular contacts who stepped up to offer their testing services when they heard of the mini bus tire concerns that the New Brunswick mothers contacted me about.

If the testing proves the Minster's government departments have made the correct tire choices, the bereaved mothers causing this concern will end their campaign, and the kids who ride these MFAV's will be safe. Their parents will be grateful to know their government has their concerns at heart after all.

If the test proves the all-winter tire fitment is safer, the Minister can go ahead and order the implementation of this new policy. Children will be safe, their parents grateful, and he can demonstrate to the people of New Brunswick that political pride does not stand in the way of finding the truth.

What is difficult to accept about this free offer of expert assistance? It is a win-win for every stakeholder in this issue. And I doubt this issue will go away until proper testing is arranged. The longer this takes, the greater the impact when the results are released, whatever they are.

These bereaved families are now on their own, looking for a bus to rent to do the winter testing. Why should these saddened families take on this financial burden when it will cost the Government of New Brunswick nothing to provide a bus for testing?

As we approach the anniversary of the tragic collision which claimed these young lives, I would say to the Minister, Man-up and be a willing participant in investigating school bus safety for your province. Step up and be a solution, what is stopping you?

NB Minister of Transportation refuses to test mini-bus tires

We received this letter yesterday, December 29, from the New Brunswick Minister of Transportation, Denis Landry. This is in response to our letter dated December 4, 2009, (click here to read our December 4th letter) in which we made a request under the Right to Information Act because we couldn't seem to get the answers we wanted from the bureaucrats in the Department of Education and Transportation, including Charlotte Valley of Transportation and John McLaughlin, District 15 Superintendent, Department of Education. (Click here for letter from John McLaughlin, dated October 28, 2009, in which he does not answer our question about whether the BHS 21 passenger MFAV is being used or not).

We are not satisfied with the Minister's response and will be taking further action.
____

Dear Mrs. Hains, Ms. Kelly and Ms. Acevedo:

This is in reply to your e-mail dated December 7, 2009 in which you request, under the Right to Information Act, “the number and copy of the Department of Transportation policy to which Mr. Hoar refers”. The policy to which Mr. Hoar refers is actually the Department of Education Policy number 512 and 513, which you may already have, but I am attaching it for your convenience.

In response to your questions, I will reply in the order you asked.

1. On December 1, 2009 a letter was sent to Marc Gregoire, Assistant Deputy Minister of Safety and Security with Transport Canada, asking for their confirmation, based on adequate testing at highway speeds, of the appropriate tires that should be used on the steer axle of rear wheel drive multi function activity vehicles.

2. The Department of Transportation will not be undertaking its own study of tires on 21 passenger multi function activity vehicles, however, officials and technical experts along with Transport Canada are in discussions to resolve this issue, with the safety of students foremost in their minds.

3. These vehicles are operated by the Department of Education, therefore any decision to take these 21 passenger vehicles off the road would be made by them.

I trust this will meet with your satisfaction. Should you require anything further, please feel free to call, Dianne Broadley, our Right to Information Co-ordinator at 506-453-2552.

Sincerely,

Denis Landry
Minister

cc. Hon. Premier Graham
Hon. Roland Haché
Hon. John Foran

Att.

http://www.gnb.ca/0000/pol/e/512A.pdf

http://www.gnb.ca/0000/pol/e/513A.pdf

http://www.gnb.ca/0000/pol/e/513AA.pdf

http://www.gnb.ca/0000/pol/e/513AB.pdf

http://www.gnb.ca/0000/pol/e/513AC.pdf

Confirming the Facts About Tires: Ambulance NB Memo, February 1, 2008 Re: Winter Tires on Ambulances

This is a copy of the Ambulance NB Memo regarding the use of winter tires that was sent to us as one of the attachments to a letter to the Shawn Graham, Premier of New Brunswick from Ralph McBride, National CUPE Representative, dated December 21, 2009.

Click here to read Mr. McBride's letter to the Premier, Shawn Graham.

Rubber Association of Canada Communique about Winter Tires from December 4, 2005!!

This is another one of the attachments that we received from Ralph McBride, National CUPE Representative, in the copy of his letter to Premier Shawn Graham dated December 21, 2009 (below)

Click here to read Mr. McBride's letter to the Premier, Shawn Graham.

Article by John Mahler about Winter Tires from March 1, 2008

Here is another attachment we received from Ralph McBride as part of his letter to Premier of New Brunswick, Shawn Graham, dated December 21, 2009 (see letter below)

Click here to read Mr. McBride's letter to the Premier, Shawn Graham.

Why Winter Tires? Be Car Care Aware

This is one of the attachments that we received from Ralph McBride, National CUPE Representative, in the copy of his letter to Premier Shawn Graham dated December 21, 2009 (below)

Click here to read Mr. McBride's letter to the Premier, Shawn Graham.

Ambulance NB Report on Tires: Letter to Premier Graham from Ralph McBride, CUPE

Premier Graham,

I am sending you this email today asking for your support in fixing the winter tire issue in Bathurst. We all remember the tragedy that occurred almost 2 years ago in Bathurst one stormy winter night. I have been following the investigation and reports that have been published since this terrible accident. I read the other day in the Telegraph Journal that the new vans that are now being used to transport our youth to games and events for school still have not been equipped with the proper tire configuration.

I am not a tire expert by any means but do understand the importance of safety, in 2007 the province took over the delivery of all ambulance services and contracted NBEMS to be the administrator of that service, NBEMS at that time changed all tire configurations on those units to the one that they used in Nova Scotia. Shortly after that change over there were a number of accidents involving ambulances, the complaints that were brought forward by the medics in the field was that the tires were like racing slicks in the cold weather and they were having trouble steering the vehicle. It took 4 months of campaigning before this company would agree to do some testing on the issue, by mid-April we were able to complete the testing on a number of different tire configuration and compounds. The results were all vehicles should be equipped with 4 WINTER TIRES not ALL SEASON or A COMBINATION of BOTH. I can provide you with those finding.

I understand this issue because I am the union representative that lobbied the company to get this testing done. Transport Canada and the Rubber Association of Canada were also involved in this campaign to provide their insight as well.

My question to you is really quite simple: Why would the Government of New Brunswick not recognize the need to put the proper tires on these passenger vans that are now carrying our children. I have spoken with the mothers in Bathurst who have asked for the use of one of the units for testing , why would you need to go there when you have the ability to look at the testing that was done for Ambulance NB or hire the same consultant that did the ANB test or simply do the right thing and install 4 winter tires.

Premier Graham , I would like to hear your respond to this issue ,a simple explanation would be appreciated.

I would like to Thank-you for your time and anticipate hearing from you.

Ralph McBride
National Cupe Representative
Saint John NB

For additional information on this issue from Ralph McBride:

Confirming the Facts About Tires: Ambulance NB Memo, February 1, 2008 Re: Winter Tires on Ambulances

http://blog.vanangels.ca/2009/12/ambulance-nb-memo-february-1-2008-re.html

Rubber Association of Canada Communique about Winter Tires from December 4, 2005!!

http://blog.vanangels.ca/2009/12/rubber-association-of-canada-communique.html

Article by John Mahler about Winter Tires from March 1, 2008

http://blog.vanangels.ca/2009/12/article-by-john-mahler-about-winter.html

Why Winter Tires? Be Car Care Aware

http://blog.vanangels.ca/2009/12/why-winter-tires-be-car-care-aware.html

Letter to the Editor: Mothers Plea for Test Bus Loan for Scientific Testing

Dear Editor:

We are three mothers from Bathurst, New Brunswick who lost our teenaged sons in a tragic collision that claimed the lives of four other Bathurst High School basketball players and the coach's wife on the night of January 12, 2008. Known as the "Boys in Red", our sons'memory lives on in the changes that have been brought about to the transportation of children to extra-curricular activities in New Brunswick and across Canada.


However, there are still some changes that must be made, specifically with regards to the use of winter tires on the NB Department of Education's fleet of 21 passenger Multi Function Activity Vehicles (MFAVs). We hope that your readers can help us to solve a burning question about the use of mixed tires vs winter tires on these vehicles.


In October, we discovered that Bathurst High School's brand new 21 passenger MFAV had mixed tires (all seasons on the front and winter tires on the back). This is in violation of the NB Department of Education's own Policy 513 which states that buses must be equipped with winter tires between November and April. It is also contrary to the opinion of Canada's leading tire experts - including Nigel Moritimer of Transport Canada and John Mahler of Wheels Magazine - who have stated publicly that these type of vehicles need winter tires all around.

Two weeks ago, Continental Tires, one of the world's leading tire companies, offered to conduct free tests of the 21 passenger MFAV at its state of the art testing facility in northern Michigan. However the company does not have an appropriate vehicle in its test fleet. When we asked the Department of Education for a vehicle, they said they could not make a decision until January at the earliest. Meantime, we have confirmed that, contrary to previous reports, BHS's 21 passenger MFAV is still being used to transport children to extra curricular events despite the considerable liability issues.

We have a very narrow window of opportunity to access Continental's testing facilities: given the circumstances, we are writing to ask your readers for help in obtaining a one tonne, dual tires, rear wheel drive, Type A 21 passenger MFAV that can be used for scientific testing by Continental Tires.

We know this is an unusual request but we believe that there are angels out there who agree that the transportation of children should not be left up to speculation. Only scientific research data can prove once and for all whether this type of vehicle should be using winter tires or all seasons tires on its front wheels.

With each passing day, as winter starts to settle in and the second anniversary of our sons' deaths comes upon us, this matter becomes ever more urgent. We firmly believe that when it comes to childrens' safety, there should be no doubt in anyone's minds.

We can be contacted by email at info@vanangels.ca or by telephone at 506-546-6370 / 506-548-4973 in Bathurst, New Brunswick.

Yours sincerely,



Isabelle Hains
Marcella Kelly
Ana Acevedo

Response from Michelin to Request from Dept. of Transportation

This is the response from Michelin tires to the request from Gary Spencer of the Department of Transportation for advice on the use of winter tires.

Click here to see the December 4, 2009 letter of request to Michelin from Gary Spencer of DOT, in which he mistakenly identifies the Multi Function Activity Vehicle as a "school bus" at least four times AND admits that since these 21 passenger MFAVs are new vehicles in the provincial fleet, and since the Department did not have a policy on winter tires for these MFAVs, DOT simply applied the existing tire policy for yellow school buses to the MFAVs).

____

Province of New Brunswick
Department of Transportation
1050 College Hill Road
P.O. Box 6000
Fredericton, N.B.

December 18, 2009


Att: M. Gary Spencer, Asst Director Operations

The types of vehicles you will be using are common in the industry. Your present policy of fitting the steer with a rib type of tire and the drives with a Winter tread design is the right way to proceed.

The ideal situation is to have a vehicle with an understeer effect. A vehicle with oversteer is less predictable and harder to control.

Having Winter traction tire on the rear and a rib tire in the front will give you understeer. With the oversteer situation, it is in critical situations such as heavy rain, snow or icy slippery road conditions that it will manifest itself in an unexpected maneuver.

In 4X2 vehicles such as your vehicle, we recommend Rib tire on the steer and Winter traction type of tires on the rear. The importance of having a vehicle with understeer goes beyond the standard rear wheel drive type of vehicle. Even a front wheel drive vehicle in a situation where you need to replace only two tires, the industry suggests that the rear tire be replaced first. If you have your new tire on the front and worn tire in the back, you are inducing oversteer which is not a recommended situation.

Same thing applies to your vehicle, you want these to be fitted in such a way that you are not inducing oversteer, therefore Ribs on steer and Winter traction tread design on the rear axle. I hope this explanation will serve you in making your decision as to how to equip your vehicles.

Please feel free to call me if you would like to discuss this any further.


Sincerely,

François Beauchamp
Special Projects Coordinator
Michelin North America (Canada) Inc.

Bathurst Mothers Given Extension on Mini-Bus Testing by Continental Tire: NB Department of Education says it can't make decision until January

US based Continental Tires Research and Development Division has given three Bathurst mothers an extension so they can find a mini-bus to use for testing at its state of the art testing facility in Michigan.

Isabelle Hains, Marcella Kelly and Ana Acevedo lost their sons in a horrific traffic collision that claimed the lives of four other Bathurst High School basketball players and their coach's wife nearly two years ago.

In October, they discovered that Bathurst High School's new 21 passenger Multi Function Activity Vehicle (MFAV) - which replaced the now banned 15 passenger vans - had all season tires in the front and winter tires in the back.

They say mixed tires is in violation of the province of New Brunswick's own policy and contrary to to the professional opinion of Canada's leading tire experts - including Nigel Moritimer of Transport Canada and John Mahler of Wheels Magazine - who have stated publicly that these type of vehicles need winter tires all around.

The mothers note that in the province of Quebec, less than 100 kms from Bathurst, these 21 passenger vehicles must have winter tires.

On Wednesday they asked the Minister of Education Roland Hache and the Minister of Transport Denis Landry to loan one of its 21 passenger MFAVs for the testing at Continental's facility in January. Bruno Blanchard, the father of Nikki Kelly who was killed in the Bathurst tragedy, has volunteered to drive the mini-bus to Michigan for the testing.

Late yesterday the mothers were relieved to learn that Continental will extend its deadline thus allowing their request to the province of New Brunswick to go through the regular process.

Valerie Kilfoil, Director of Communications for the Province of New Brunswick was reported the Telegraph Journal today as saying that the Department "would need at least until the new year to consider it.

"We will submit it through the request process like we would any other request," she said.

The mothers say they will still try to locate a min-bus elewhere because, based on past experience, they can't be 100% certain the province will actually come through. They have written a Letter to the Editor of every newspaper across Canada asking for a mini-bus to use for testing by Continental.

They say that once the testing in Michigan is complete, they are willing to accept the results, even if it does not support the winter tire theory. But what they are not willing to accept is the status quo.

"These mini-buses are still being used by the Department of Education to transport children to extra curricular activities," says Marcella Kelly. "Until we know for certain, one way or the other, that these vehicles should have all seasons or winter tires on the front, they should be taken off the road. I'm shocked that the Department continues to use the vehicles despite the public safety issues we have raised."

John Mahler is a veteran journalist with Canada's Wheels' Magazine. He said the Education Department is setting itself up for a lawsuit by continuing to use the 21 passenger MFAVs.

"Since the Education department has been told now by many experts that they are wrong, should a personal injury collision occur on one of the mini-busses, the lawyers will have a field day suing the department. Their blatant disregard for the opinions of the tire experts will show that they are liable to some degree. And their refusal to investigate further and enter into a dialogue will harm them if they get sued, which they will."

Bathurst Mothers Arrange for Scientific Testing of MFAV - - Need Test Vehicle, Deadline Fast Approaching

Three Bathurst mothers who lost their sons in a horrific crash nearly two years ago are asking Denis Landry, the Minister of Transportation and Roland Hache, the Minister of Education, to use one of the 21 passenger MFAVs in their fleet for scientific testing in a state of the art facility in Sault Ste Marie, Michigan.

Isabelle Hains, Marcella Kelly and Ana Acevedo had arranged with Contintental Tires North America Inc. R&D to undergo testing that will solve once and for all the issue of winter tires vs all season tires on the 21 passenger MFAVs. The MFAVs replaced the 15 passenger vans that were banned by the province of New Brunswick following the tragic deaths of seven high school basketball players from Bathurst.

Joerg Burfien, Director, Continental Tire North America, Inc. R&D - The Americas, has proposed that Continental Tire would be prepared to conduct tire tests of various fitments on a MFAV 21 passenger mini-bus of the type used in Bathurst, NB.

The 21 passenger MFAVs have been a bone of contention since the mothers discovered in October that they were outfitted with all season tires in the front and winter tires in the back, contrary to the opinion of Canada's leading tire experts including Nigel Moritimer of Transport Canada and John Mahler of Wheels Magazine, who have stated publicly that these type of vehicles need winter tires all around.

Earlier this month, the mothers were put in in touch with Continental Tires, one of the world's largest tire manufacturers and a leader in the tire industry. Contintental offered to conduct tests on the same type of vehicle at its testing facility in Michigan with one catch: it needs a vehicle to test.

"We thought we had a vehicle so we did not approach anyone else," says Isabelle Hains, "But today is the deadline and we still have not been able to confirm whether we can use that vehicle or not. That is why we are asking the Ministers of Transportation and Education to allow us to use one of the 21 passenger MFAVs in their fleet for the test in January."

Marcella Kelly says "We can work out the details later. All we need is a yes or no by tomorrow morning. If it's "no", we've lost the only chance we have to conduct a free scientific test by Continental."

The mothers say they have to let Continental know one way or the other by the end of the day today, or tomorrow morning at the latest.

Response to Valerie Kilfoil's note saying she needs more information

Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: RE: URGENT: Bathurst Mothers Request Test Vehicle for
ScientifictTesting in Michigan in January

Hi Valerie, Thank you for responding so quickly. We understand that there is a process and legal and liability concerns. However,this very narrow window of opportunity for FREE scientific testing at Continental's testing facility in Michigan will expire by tomorrow if we don't give them at minimum, an expression of interest that the province can provide a vehicle. We are just parents who have done everything we can in our power to get a vehicle to the Michigan testing facility. There is a very narrow window of opportunity left now and we are very concerned we will lose it and these tests will never be conducted by anyone in authority.

We are not the experts. If there are questions that we have not answered, please contact the person at Contintental whose number we gave you and he can answer all your questions as can John Mahler, whose number is also supplied in the letter.

If you have any questions about Continental's testing, please contact Jay Spears at
XXX-XXX-XXXX (cel) or John Mahler at XXX-XXX-XXXX.<<

Please advise. Thank you for your assistance.

Isabelle Hains
Marcella Kelly
Ana Acevedo

Valerie Kilfoil's response to our request to the Minister for a test vehicle

Below is the response we received from Valerie Kilfoil after we sent the email to the Minister of Education, Roland Hache, requesting a test vehicle.

Click here to read the email to the Minister of Education, Roland Hache, requesting a test vehicle.

------- Original Message -------
From : Kilfoil, Valerie (ED)[mailto:Valerie.Kilfoil@gnb.ca]
Sent : 16/12/2009 19:15:34
To : info@vanangels.ca; EDcommunication@gnb.ca
Cc : InformationGenerale.GeneralInquiry@gnb.ca;
Hon.Brian.Kenny@gnb.ca; Denis.Landry2@gnb.ca; Shawn.Graham@gnb.ca
Subject : RE: URGENT: Bathurst Mothers Request Test Vehicle for
ScientifictTesting in Michigan in January

Thank you Isabelle. As we discussed on the phone, the Department cannot give you an answer by tomorrow. We have a process that must be followed for both legal and liability reasons. There are also a number of questions that are not addressed in your letter that will need to be answered before the Department can respond.

Valerie Kilfoil
Director of Communications/Directrice des communications
Department of Education / Ministère de l'Éducation
(506) 444-4919

Request to Ministers Denis Landry (Transportation) and Roland Hache (Education) for a Test MFAV from the government fleet

This is the "urgent" letter we sent to the Minister of Education requesting a test vehicle to use at Continental Tires' testing facility in northern Michigan.

To: EDCommunications (ED); Kilfoil, Valerie (ED)
Cc: General Inquiry, Information Générale (DPS/MSP); Kenny, Hon. Brian
(SD/DS); Landry, Denis Hon. (DOT/MDT); Graham, Shawn
Subject: URGENT: Bathurst Mothers Request Test Vehicle for Scientifict
Testing in Michigan in January

Hon. Roland Hache, Minister of Education

December 16, 2009

Dear Mr. Hache:

We are writing to ask your permission to use one of the 21 passenger MFAVs in the Department of Education's fleet for scientific testing at Contintental Tires' state of the art testing facility in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

As you know, the issue of what type of tires to use on the Bathurst High School's 21 passenger MFAV has been a bone of contention since we discovered in October that the vehicle was outfitted with all season tires in the front and winter tires in the back. This is contrary to the opinion of Canada's leading tire experts including Nigel Moritimer of Transport Canada and John Mahler of Wheels Magazine, who have stated publicly that these type of vehicles need winter tires all around.

Earlier this month, were were put in in touch with Continental Tires, one of the world's largest tire manufacturers and a leader in the tire industry. Joerg Burfien, Director, Continental Tire North America, Inc. R&D - The Americas, has proposed that
Continental Tire would be prepared to conduct tire tests from January 11-12.13-14-15-16, 2010 of various fitments on a MFAV 21 passenger mini-bus of the type used in Bathurst, NB, but there is one catch: it needs a vehicle to test.

We thought we had a vehicle so we did not approach anyone else, but today is the deadline and we still have not been able to confirm whether we can use that vehicle or not. That is why we are asking you as the Minister of Education to allow us to use one of the 21 passenger MFAVs in your fleet for the test in January.

We can work out the details later. All we need is a yes or no by tomorrow morning. If it's "no", we've lost the only chance we have to conduct a free scientific test by Continental. We have to let Continental know one way or the other by the end of the day today, or tomorrow morning at the latest.

Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.

If you have any questions about Continental's testing, please contact Jay Spears at XXX-XXX-XXXX (cel) or John Mahler at XXX-XXX-XXXX.


Yours sincerely,





Isabelle Hains
Marcella Kella
Ana Acevedo

cc.
Valerie Kilfoil, Communications Director, Department of Education
Premier Shawn Graham
Denis Landry, Minister of Transportation
John Foran, Minister of Public Safety
Brian Kenny, Minister of Minister of State for Seniors / Minister
responsible for Community Non-Profit Organizations
John Mahler, Wheels Magazine

Response from Goodyear Tires to Request from Gary Spencer on use of Winter Tires

Here is the response from Goodyear Tires to Gary Spencer's November 24, 2009 request for Goodyear's opinion on the use of winter tires.

(Click here to see November 24, 2009 letter from Gary Spencer to Goodyear Tires)

You will note the following in Spencer's original letter to Goodyear:

1. The Multi Function Activity Vehicles (MFAVs) have been variously called "small school buses" "20 passenger buses" "passenger buses" and "bus" even though the MFAVs are not a "bus".

2. Mr. Spencer admits that the MFAV is a new vehicle in the provincial fleet and because they didn't have a policy per se, they simply implemented the tire policy for yellow school buses (even though the MFAV is not a bus).

Please note the following in Goodyear's Reponse to Spencer

1. Goodyear calls the MFAV a "bus"

2. Goodyear admits that this is just its "opinion"

3. Goodyear admits is has never done a test on this type of vehicle

____

From: frank.migneault@goodyear.com
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:14 PM
To: Spencer. Gary (DOT/MDT)

Subject: Re: Opinion regarding the usage of winter tires on steering axles of small school buses.

Mr. Spencer:

I have consulted with a number of associates at our Global Headquarters in Akron regarding your request. Although we have not performed testing on this specific vehicle application, we are providing our opinion with regards to the usage of winter tires for these 21-passenger buses that are built on a 1 ton truck chassis with dual tires on the drive axle.

We concur with your independent automotive engineer's recommendation as follow:

(i) for the specific purpose of minimizing oversteer at highway speeds, the use of winter tires on the drive axle and non-winter tires on the steer axle of the subject vehicles is appropriate; and

(ii) for the subject vehicles in urban application, non-highways speeds, the use of winter tires on all positions is likewise appropriate.

Please contact me if you have any further questions.

Frank Migneault

Customer Engineering
Phone; (416) 201-7886
Fax: (416) 201-4256

Right To Information Request to to Minister Denis Landry, New Brunswick Department of Transportation

On December 4, 2009, we had to make a request under the Right to Information Act to Denis Landry, New Brunswick's Minister of Transportation, for information about the policies which were being cited by the Department of Transportation's engineering consultant, David Hoar of Motion Design Assoc., Fredericton, NB, as the rationale behind his claim that mixed tires were suitable for a 21 passenger MFAV like the one used by Bathurst High School. (Click here to read David Hoar's response to our request to the NB Department of Transportation for scientific evidence that mixed tires were suitable for 21 passenger MFAVs). Not only does David Hoar NOT provide any scientific evidence, but he cites an unnamed "policy". We wanted to know what the "policy" was and what department it belonged to, Transportation or Education?. So the only way to get that information was through a Right to Information request.

We also asked the Minister to answer three questions we had that we couldn't seem to get anyone to answer about the use of the 21 passenger MFAV by BHS. You see, after we found out the BHS 21 passenger MFAV had mixed tires, we heard a rumour the vehicles were being taken off the road. Since we only believe in cold, hard facts, we wrote to John McLaughlin, Superintendent of District 15, whether it was true or not but all we got from him was a classic pile of "BS" - BureacrateSe - that didn't answer the question whatsoever. Click here to read our letter to John McLaughlin and his response to us. Meantime, below is our letter to the Minister of Transportation asking about the policy Mr. Hoar was talking about and whether it was true the 21 passenger vehicles had been taken off the road.

Finally, we asked the Ministerif the Department was going to do undertake scientific testing of the 21 passenger MFAVs.

____

Hon. Denis Landry
1344-3 Des Fondateurs Street
Paquetville, N.B.
E8R 1A4

December 4, 2009


Hon. Denis Landry

Re: Request for information under the Right to Information Act

Please find enclosed the five dollar fee for an official request under the Right to Information Act for research data which supports the claims made by David Hoar, the Department of Transportation's engineering consultant, that a 21 passengers Multifunctional Activity Vehicle (MFAV) should be equipped with all season tires on the front and winter tires (with a mountain and snowflake pictograph) on the rear at high speed only.

In this regard, attached is a letter from Mr. Hoar, dated November 22, 2009, "Usage of winter designated tires on passenger vehicles and light busses" in which he attempts to explain the rationale behind his recommendation to your Department that a combination of tires should be fitted on Bathurst High School's 21 passenger MFAV.

In paragraphs one and two and three of Mr. Hoar's letter, he refers to a "policy". We quote: "...we had previously reviewed the policy used by Education and concurred with its contents." and "For light busses based on LT Chassis, and larger busses, the recommendation was to keep the policy in effect and install such tires on the drive position only. Steer positions should continue to be equipped with appropriate rib style tires that are less aggressive than on the drive positions." and " We agree that for heavy snow conditions there will be an improvement in steering and braking abilities at lower or urban speeds with winter tires installed in all positions, however for weather controlled operational profiles that include significant highway speed usage, we concur and recommend that the winter traction tires be confined to the drive positions, as in virtually all commercial and highway usage vehicles that are rear drive."

To that effect, we are also requesting under the Right to Information Act the number and copy of the Department of Transportation policy to which Mr. Hoar refers, a copy of the original policy, and any revisions that were made on this policy to supports the reason how, when, where and why the 21 passenger MFAV should be equipped with all season tires on the front and winter tires with a mountain and snowflake pictograph on the rear.

We already have the NB Department of Education's Policies 512 and 513 and the District Education Council Policies E-8 and E-8a from District 15 so we are not referring to those policies: rather, we are requesting the Department of Transportation Policy to which Mr. Hoar is referring in his letter of November 22, 2009.

As you are probably aware, Mr. Hoar's recommendation is in contradiction to Transport Canada and every other tire expert in the country which state that mixing tires with different tread patterns, internal construction, and size degrades the stability of the vehicle and should be avoided.

We have spoken to more than a dozen tire experts across Canada including Nigel Mortimer of Transport Canada and John Mahler, a veteran automotive journalist with the Toronto Star's Wheels Magazine and they all say the same thing: that these 21 passengers MFAV should have winter tires all around. As this is a public safety issue with ramifications and liability concerns far beyond the NB Department of Transportation, we implore you to listen to the expert advice of professionals from outside the province whose informed opinion completely contradicts that of Mr. Hoar.

In addition, we would like to know the answers to the following questions, which do not fall under the scope of the Right to Information Act; therefore, we hope that you can answer these questions immediately:

When do you intend to request that the Federal Department of Transport undertake a research study on the feasibility of using mixed tires on the 21 passengers Multifunctional Activity Vehicle?
Will the NB Department of Transportation undertake its own study of mixed tires on the 21 passengers Multifunctional Activity Vehicle?
Are the entire 21 passengers MFAV from all school Districts in New Brunswick off the road?

Thank you in advance for answering our questions and complying with our request for information under Right to Information Act.

Sincerely,

Isabelle Hains
Marcella Kelly
Ana Acevedo

cc: Premier Shawn Graham
cc: Minister Roland Hache
cc: Minister Denis Landry
cc: Minister John Foran
cc: Charlotte Valley